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#16635 - 02/14/08 02:34 AM Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHANGE?
Junglist
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Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Supporter willing to "Change" Allegiance if You Can Change my Mind.

I love listening to Obama speak. The man is charismatic beyond belief. I think he would do an incredible job at doing what Americans have somehow come to believe a President is supposed to do.

Obama has incredible presence and captivating charm. He is incredible at conveying his vision. But in my opinion, if he wins the Presidency it won't be because of these gifts. Nor will it be because he awakened the passions of young voters. And it won't be because he united America; It will be for one reason and one reason only: Americans have no idea what a President is supposed to do. And if you actually listen to the words he so eloquently speaks, neither does he.

But this is just my opinion, and I could be wrong. If I am, and you help me see the error of my ways; I will vote for your candidate this November. My request is outlined below.

If you support Barack Obama, or any other candidate for that matter I have a question first and then your opportunity to win a vote for your candidate.

The question is this:

What do you think the President's Job is and what illustrates your candidate has the best ability to do this job? Comment below or email me if you're shy.

Here's the Opportunity:

If you can click and read the actual Job Description for President of The United States, and convince me that the "best of your candidate's ablity" (you'll understand why that's in quotes when you read the link) is greater than Ron Paul's I will publicly pledge my vote to your candidate and post a picture of my voting for said candidate on this website on or before November 5th, 2008.

Winning a vote should never be easier if your candidate really is the best one for the job. If you can rise to the challenge, I have a feeling that you wouldn't just get my vote but that of many other Ron Paul supporters as well. Most of us already agree with Obama's stated position on the war (or at least the fact that we shouldn't have started it to begin with), so if you do your best, enlist your friends in this effort, and "change" my mind, I and others like me may help you elect your candidate of "change."

Your Fellow American,

.....

P.S. Below is the text from another article about the importance of keeping this Oath of Office and Protecting the Constitution since the one thing that truly "Unites" Americans is our Freedom, and the Constitution protects it. I welcome any comments on this as well.


As always, unlike the NFL, the author gives you express permission to give accounts of rebroadcast, retransmit, or do anything else you'd like with it to promote the Restoration of our Republic.

subjugate@thoughtbombing.com

How often have you heard someone say, "I don't really pay attention to politics" and then follow it up with a meager "but I probably should"? The reason often given for not knowing more is that it is just "too complicated." And there is a reason it is complicated:

People vote based on their personal beliefs.

If you believe in the right of a woman to choose, you vote Democrat.

If you believe in the right of an unborn child to live, you vote Republican.

If you believe that the government should provide universal healthcare, you vote Democrat.

If you believe that spreading democracy is the best way to protect us from terrorists, you vote Republican.

If you believe that gay people and minorities have collective rights, you vote Democrat.

If you believe that Christians have collective rights, you vote Republican.

How often have you heard that as an educated voter you should study the issues and then vote for the candidate who most closely shares your beliefs as you on those issues? How many people have told you that they voted for someone because that candidate believes in what the person talking to you believes in?

The paradigm shift that must occur for our country to be what it was intended to be is to stop asking this ridiculous question and start voting on the one and only issue that should matter: which candidate has the best ability to do what they are sworn in to do? I have asked about 50 people over the last week if they knew what it was that an elected federal government official was supposed to do--what they swear they will do--and not surprisingly not a single one so far has known.

Why? Because the discussion for so long has been based on voting based on what you believe, and there are so many different beliefs, that the whole thing has become "complicated." Do you know what these officials are supposed to do? If you do, congratulations, you are probably already voting for the one candidate who stands out above all the rest because of this candidate's proven ability to do it. If you don't, read on, and if you are intelligent you will come to the same decision other people already have.

The reason voting for your beliefs is the wrong way to go about voting is that your candidate's actually following through on his/her campaign commitments may ultimately lead to a future where your beliefs may not matter at all. Huh? Let me explain.

Despite popular belief, the Constitution does not grant us our freedom or rights as American citizens. These "self-evident truths" are part of (depending on your personal beliefs) derived either from your Creator or from natural law. A person born in a place where no government existed would indeed be free, but his freedom would not be protected against another's freedom. It was with this concept in mind that our nation's founders drafted the Constitution. It wasn't to give us freedom, which would necessarily imply that we aren't free unless the government allows us to be; it was to create a government that not only allowed a person to keep his natural state of freedom, so long as it didn't interfere with another's; this by turn protected his freedom against the use of theirs to deprive him of his. Therefore, the government as established by the Constitution was created for one reason: to protect the freedom with which we are all born.

Because the people who created this document had just placed their "lives, fortunes, and sacred honor" on the line in order to regain this freedom from an oppressive government, they made sure when they wrote it that if we followed the guidelines, no such government could ever exist in our country. It's not that these men were infallible demigods (although they were pretty dang smart), it was that they understood how much freedom cost and how much it was worth. They wanted to make sure that their sacrifice didn't go to waste.

Just as a successful progenitor will create specific rules for the trust he leaves his family, which if followed will ensure their wealth; our founders created a trust for our freedom. And much like the heirs who have little appreciation for the sacrifice of the person who created this wealth for them take what they have for granted and sometimes squander it all by not following the rules; we the people do the same thing when we ignore the rules of the trust fund of freedom left for us by the people who paid for it and set up the rules of that trust.

It is this freedom that allows you as an individual to believe what you choose to believe, to freely express your beliefs as long as doing so does not interfere with other individual's rights to believe what they choose to believe. The founders were also intelligent enough to realize that times and situations would change. That is why the document came complete with easy to read instruction included on how to change it should times demand it. This process is called amending the Constitution, and the change is called, duh, an Amendment. And while changing the Constitution is not complicated, it is not easy.

That is by design. The founders knew from personal experience that the greatest threat to freedom was the government which is why the power of the government is incredibly limited in the Constitution. They realized that every law passed, regardless of how good the intention, could potentially damage the freedom of the individual since the enforcement of that law would require a sacrifice by the people (either in money or personal liberty).

Yet they also knew that there could be an idea or philosophy that came along which would gain the support of enough citizens that they would decide to allow the government to adopt and enforce it as law. This is why free speech is so important. It allows a way for these ideas to be heard and possibly adopted. If enough people think it's a good idea, then the Constitution can be amended. But unless the people decide to allow the government to make such laws by amending the Constitution, the last line of Article 1, Section 8 clearly states that the federal government has no power to do so, and the 10th Amendment further solidifies this.

Unfortunately, most people hated history class. And the Constitution is something they learned about there. Each time the government decides to do something that is a "good idea" based on some "belief of philosophy" in order to solve some problem that pops up, the power of the government increases, and the freedom and rights of the individual decrease. Because most people slept through history class and don't realize how important the Constitution is the government has become incredibly powerful by creating laws in order to solve problems that they have absolutely no right to create to begin with.

What most Americans don't realize is that the Constitution isn't an archaic document that was written for "back then"; it is a Contract between we the people and our government. And we the people dictated the terms of that Contract to give the government its rights--not vice versa. Every time the government decides it wants to do something in the best interest of the people that it isn't allowed to do, it violates that contract.

Think of it like this: If you had a contract with someone to build a house for you, for a set price you would expect to receive exactly what you agreed to for exactly the price agreed upon. If the builder knew that you hadn't read the contract he could give you less; he could also charge you more, and you would never know. This would benefit the builder but it would harm you. Similarly, if the builder just decided that your house would look better with brick instead of vinyl and decided to build it that way although you didn't ask for it, you would be outraged when you were expected to pay for the additions he made without authorization. If the builder decided that you should have a brick house, and explained that to you, and you agreed; you could then make that change--by changing the contract. If you wanted something else added that was important enough to you to give up something for it, you could then go to the builder and ask him to do it (he would likely oblige since he would receive more money) and once again, you would change the contract. But anything done without changing the contract would without question be detrimental to the party giving up something and be exploited by the party that gains something, regardless of the intent. Which brings us back to voting based on your beliefs.

When you vote based on your beliefs instead of voting based on who is most capable of doing the job they swear they will do, you are essentially saying, "I'm okay with having my contract violated as long as the government thinks it's a good idea; since the person I voted for claims to believe what I believe, it probably will be a good idea."

But what happens when your candidate doesn't win? Well then, you blame the other people who voted based on their beliefs for ruining your country. If you are a Republican, you blame FDR's "good idea" called the New Deal for creating the welfare state. If you are a Democrat, you blame the Republican's "good idea" of democratizing the Middle East for the war in Iraq. The thing both of these "good ideas" have in common is that there is absolutely nothing in the Contract that allows them to begin with, but that matters little if the people haven't read it. If we had felt that these problems had been serious enough to deal with and that the federal government was the best way to deal with them, we could have added it into the Contract.

Of course, neither party points this out because if the people actually understood that their Contract was being violated when the party out of power got their turn to be in power again, they wouldn't be able to exploit the Contract themselves. That's why winning elections by getting you to vote your beliefs is more important than getting you to vote on the one thing that should matter: the person with the best ability to do the job they were sworn in to do. Still wondering what it is they swear to do?

It's the last sentence of Article 2, Section 1 of that Contract. If you still don't see why it's important for you to read it, I'll just put that sentence here for you:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Pretty simple, huh?

There's only one candidate who can say that he has done this without fail for 20 years. Congressman Ron Paul. Of course, both parties want you to think he's crazy because if he were elected the people would see how simple this government thing really is, start paying attention, and regain their freedom and power (which would take it from the politicians) because he would honor the people's end of the Contract.

If you watch every debate, he has never criticized the Democrats for America's problems and sometimes seems to blame Republicans. And despite what Republicans would have you believe, it isn't because he's a pacifist liberal in disguise. It's because he knows it's not the Democrats who are the problem. It's both parties. And it's because they violate the Contract between We the People and our government. And we seem to tacitly endorse this because we voted based on our beliefs instead of voting for candidates who would ensure we had the right to hold those beliefs.

If Barack Obama really wanted to do something about the special interests he claims to detest, he'd make government smaller so it wouldn't be worth millions to them to send their lobbyists since the government wouldn't have anything to do with the interests for which they are lobbying. The bigger the government is, and the more they intervene in areas which they have absolutely no right under their Contract in which to be involved the more lobbyists and special interests have a reason to come to D.C. By doing things "for the people" that the "people believe in" the more power is taken from the people and put into the hands of special interest groups.

If you are a Republican/Democrat first, Conservative/Liberal second, and an American third vote your beliefs. If you are an American first, vote for someone who will defend the very thing that protects your right to be what an American is supposed to be: Free. That choice is as simple as government was supposed to be before politics got in the way. Don't sacrifice what you want most (freedom) for what you want at the moment (someone to solve your problems).

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#16636 - 02/14/08 09:29 AM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHANGE? [Re: Junglist]
lisi
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I don't really care who you vote for Ralph. If you want to vote for Ron Paul, vote for him. So therefore this challenge is pointless because I don't feel the need to change your mind about things. I agree with Obama's policies, he inspires me, and he has the ability to cross party lines to get bills passed. That's all I care about.
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#16639 - 02/14/08 03:53 PM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHANGE? [Re: lisi]
AnmanIndustries
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Youve placed a massive argument against one person, then you ask us to convince you otherwise. You might as well say, If you can convince me why i should stop eating meat, when I love it so much and it provides me with wonderful primary proteins and keeps me completely buffed when I work you, then there is little i can say that will change your mind.

Next time, dont even place your own argument. Just ask, why should I vote for this guy, because its obvious you dont actually care, youre just trying to reverse peoples opinions by subjecting your own in a debate form, that you never planned to actually debate. You propose a question, state your opinion, then proceed to dribble about choosing what you believe, which is in perfect punctuation. Did you know, some people believe that MURDER is OK!? DID YOU KNOW SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT RAPE IS OK!? DID YOU KNOW THAT SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE SEXUALLY ABUSING A 3 YEAR OLD GIRL IS OK WHO ALSO HAPPENS TO BE YOUR DAUGHTER?! Peoples belief on what is right and wrong is pointless. People are stupid. They are a sheep to the media and their own selfish worth. Youre also forgetting the important key in choosing what is right... But you obviously dont care.

Oh and the bit at the end was HIgh-LARIOUS! Oh you typical americans. You guys crack me up. I laughed so hard I chocked on your obesity related disease and death figures. I then tripped over the huge box of rape and sexual assault figures and then I fell into a swimming pool full of STUPIDITY of you guys. it was an olypic pool. The ones that are really long and hold a lot of water. Just in case you didnt quite get it. Because I wouldnt put it past you.

.gnipyt fo derob tog I erac yllaer tnod I tihsllub hsifles dna ytilarommi tuoba stnemugra erom hO .ooooooow .og em ta kooL .xoferif siht no dellatsni yekteel dah I togrof yletelpmoc I
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#16643 - 02/14/08 07:38 PM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHANGE? [Re: AnmanIndustries]
Jamin Administrator
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A direct answer to your question isn't really possible. The "job description" of a President changes. One day he may need to be the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. One day he may need to balance a budget. One day he may need to comfort victims of some tragedy or another.

In general, I think that the primary responsibility is to make decisions that affect the future survival and prosperity of the country, with the support of a majority of the American people, and with the support of a majority of the other elected officials. So I think it's imperative that whoever the President is, be able to unite people to at least a small degree with seemingly diametrically opposed views on how things ought to be. Therein lies the problem with Ron Paul: he lacks the support of, well, pretty much everyone. This of course says nothing about how smart he is, or how qualified, or capable, or adequate he is to actually handle the job he's going for. Unfortunately, that's the way it works. I think John Edwards would have made a damn fine president, too. Mitt Romney was a smart guy as well, and probably wouldn't have failed too awful much.

So there is the inherent problem with your question. Ron Paul very much can be a good president. But he won't. Because he lacks the requisite support from the people who make that decision - that is, at least to some degree, the American populace. As it happens, this year I have chosen to throw my vote behind a candidate who I believe has the testicular fortitude to actually successfully run a country, but who also has at least some greater-than-zero chance of being allowed to do so.

Now, regarding the challenge to change your mind... you're missing the point. It is not on me, or on anyone else (perhaps short the candidates themselves) to try to change anyone's mind. That's not the way democracy works. The sum of your life thus far has affected how and why you believe the things you believe, and so your choice of candidate is your own. Believe me, I don't slam Ron Paul as a personal attack on you... in fact, I admire your continued decision to stick up for him even in light of the fact that here we are halfway through the contest for the nomination and he still has almost no public support.

You vote for who you vote for. If that's a vote for Ron Paul, or for Barack Obama, or for Hillary Clinton, or for a fucking Kleenex box, it doesn't matter. Because the very fact that you voted at all is the only thing that counts, in the end.

Now, if you were to come in here spewing the bullshit (*cough*jonicarc*cough*) about Obama being a Muslim, and pissing on the flag, and stabbing the Pillsbury Doughboy, and all that other spam-propagated FUD, then it would be on me, as a rational human, to attempt to set you straight and to prove to you otherwise. However, you and I both know you're way too intelligent to be spouting that shit. All it takes is a quick Google search to prove or disprove the vast majority of all the crap going around about any of the candidates.

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got one. Facts, I can change your mind about. Opinions are your own, and no one can or should have to even try changing your mind about them, if you came about them rationally.

---Jamin
_________________________
Diablo 3 Lead Designer Jay Wilson:
“The development of a Blizzard game is sometimes a long affair. This is how long it took us to be ready.”

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#16646 - 02/15/08 02:01 AM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHANGE? [Re: Jamin]
Junglist
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lol.. so I'll start with Lisi and work my way down...

Lisi: All you care about is being inspired, not the fact that they've got a legally binding contract. Obama inspires you how? Does he inspire you to attack Iran? Does he inspire you to support the constitution by grabbing guns from citizens? How does he inspire you?

Anman: LOL. You talk about Americans being stupid and you're in Australia... Between John Howard and Steve Irwin... and YOU, I'd say you're in no position to be talking about stupid anything.

Jamin: The least brain damaged response of the 3. The JOB OF THE PRESIDENT is listed in the Constitution. IF IT'S NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION, HE'S NOT ALLOWED TO DO IT. For instance, listening in on your phone calls(Obama voted for that BTW) is not legally allowed. Or torturing and detaining without a trial... not legally allowed... running the finances of the country? You guessed it, the CONGRESS DOES THIS--not the President. Now Lisi said something in the blog that struck a chord... he will be able to cross the aisle to get bills passed... UH, THE PRESIDENT DOESN'T WRITE OR PASS BILLS... how's he going to do that?

FACTS are FACTS because they cannot be changed. You can change my opinion, but only if the FACTS are presented to me, in a manner that I cannot deny.

So let's try this again... HERE IS THE ***ONLY*** JOB OF THE PRESIDENT ACCORDING TO THE ***ONLY*** LAW OF THE LAND(the U.S. Constitution):

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Yes... that means that if the President were to wake up, scratch his balls... get a drink, give the state of the union speech every year and only sign or veto legislation... HE'S DOING HIS JOB. As soon as he messes with the economy, another country, takes a trip ANYWHERE, he's violating the law.

PERIOD, END OF STORY.

FACTS don't change. Deny whatever argument I have, but the Constitution hasn't changed in respect to what the role of the President is

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#16648 - 02/15/08 03:20 AM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHANGE? [Re: Junglist]
Junglist
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And one more thing that really chaps my ass, btw...

People keep saying "Oh, I'd love to vote for Ron Paul... if only he had a chance, I'd vote for Ron Paul"

Motherfucker, if you people would actually vote for him, he'd have a chance. Self Fulfilling prophecy much? As a PATRIOT, I have no choice... we're not going to get CHANGE until we start supporting the Constitution again... THAT would be a real change from the way things are.

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#16652 - 02/15/08 08:54 AM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHANGE? [Re: Junglist]
lisi
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You are not going to convince me to vote for Ron Paul. Everyone has their own personal reasons for voting the way they do. We aren't on here bashing Ron Paul, but you sure come in here bashing Obama, and everyone else on this discussion thread calling people brain damaged. It's fine to have your opinion that Ron Paul would be a better president, but let us have our opinions too.

And by the way, the president does approve or veto bills that become law. He can also suggest bills to congress that he thinks should pass.

By all means Ralph, vote for Ron Paul. No one on here has told you not to. Jamin and I support Obama, and that's fine too. It's our decision, not yours. Just like you voting for Ron Paul is your decision, not ours.
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#16653 - 02/15/08 09:03 AM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHANGE? [Re: lisi]
Jamin Administrator
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The problem with your argument, Ralph, is that it's only valid in a perfect world.

Communism, on paper, is absolutely brilliant. When you translate it into a real-world situation, it fails miserably.

Now your argument is that we should stick to the letter of the Constitution. And yeah, that would be nice, wouldn't it? Bush has pissed all over that document time and time again. And I'm sure there are a few things that Obama would do that may not be perfectly in line with what the Constitution says he should do. But that document is like the Bible. And you don't see us all running around not eating meat on Friday and staying 150 feet away from women when they're on their periods, do you?

Nope, because the document is left to the interpretation of those who must uphold it. The Supreme Court judges decide how it should be interpreted. The President and Congress try to do things that are generally in line with it, under the assumption that SCOTUS can tell them otherwise. The Constitution doesn't specifically say anything about the legality of Blackberries or TrannyGrannies.com, but we still get away with them because the people that wrote it left room for interpretation.

So if Ron Paul is the Hassidic Jew of the Constitution, bully for him. That's a noble endeavor. It's just not the only way to get the job done.

By the way, Ron Paul stabbed the Pillsbury Doughboy. I read it on Fox News. I'm pretty sure.

---Jamin
_________________________
Diablo 3 Lead Designer Jay Wilson:
“The development of a Blizzard game is sometimes a long affair. This is how long it took us to be ready.”

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#16662 - 02/16/08 01:46 AM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHA [Re: Junglist]
AnmanIndustries
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 Originally Posted By: Junglist


Anman: LOL. You talk about Americans being stupid and you're in Australia... Between John Howard and Steve Irwin... and YOU, I'd say you're in no position to be talking about stupid anything.



So you judge a nation via two people.

Well Im done here, he's clearly an idiot.
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#16664 - 02/16/08 08:52 AM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHA [Re: AnmanIndustries]
lisi
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He is an idiot. Steve Irwin was awesome.
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#16670 - 02/16/08 09:36 AM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHA [Re: Jamin]
Junglist
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 Originally Posted By: Jamin
The problem with your argument, Ralph, is that it's only valid in a perfect world.

Communism, on paper, is absolutely brilliant. When you translate it into a real-world situation, it fails miserably.

Now your argument is that we should stick to the letter of the Constitution. And yeah, that would be nice, wouldn't it? Bush has pissed all over that document time and time again. And I'm sure there are a few things that Obama would do that may not be perfectly in line with what the Constitution says he should do. But that document is like the Bible. And you don't see us all running around not eating meat on Friday and staying 150 feet away from women when they're on their periods, do you?

Nope, because the document is left to the interpretation of those who must uphold it. The Supreme Court judges decide how it should be interpreted. The President and Congress try to do things that are generally in line with it, under the assumption that SCOTUS can tell them otherwise. The Constitution doesn't specifically say anything about the legality of Blackberries or TrannyGrannies.com, but we still get away with them because the people that wrote it left room for interpretation.

So if Ron Paul is the Hassidic Jew of the Constitution, bully for him. That's a noble endeavor. It's just not the only way to get the job done.

By the way, Ron Paul stabbed the Pillsbury Doughboy. I read it on Fox News. I'm pretty sure.

---Jamin



Communism hasn't ever worked on paper, or in practice. Unless you are naive enough to think that people will always do what is in the interest of everyone. So only if your paper is full of naivety, will your communism work on paper. That's a damn myth. And Communism is far less pervasive than SOCIALISM, which we currently have in the form of free college, free medicine, etc... medicare, medicaid, etc... look at the cost of College, look at when it spiked.

When did the cost of Medicine spike?

Clearly it coincides with the Government getting involved. And the inflation of money? Ah yes, when the Government stopped PRINTING THEIR OWN FUCKING MONEY, and let a private group(named FED, but it's a European bank... hello UNCONSTITUTIONAL?)

So Obama wants to tax me, take that money and give it to poor people. Well Jamin, this is STEALING. The abolished slavery quite a while back, did they not? Enjoy your microchip. Be a good German.

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#16672 - 02/16/08 09:37 AM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHA [Re: AnmanIndustries]
Junglist
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 Originally Posted By: AnmanIndustries
 Originally Posted By: Junglist


Anman: LOL. You talk about Americans being stupid and you're in Australia... Between John Howard and Steve Irwin... and YOU, I'd say you're in no position to be talking about stupid anything.



So you judge a nation via two people.

Well Im done here, he's clearly an idiot.


You constantly talk about how stupid American's are based on our leadership... we didn't even elect that fucking tyrant. YOU DID ELECT JOHN HOWARD. By a fucking landslide, mind you. Guess who he looks like... Dick Cheney. Guess what kinda policies he has... GEORGE BUSH. Neo-Con's aren't only in America.

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#16673 - 02/16/08 09:41 AM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHA [Re: Junglist]
lisi
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Actually Obama is going to lock in the tax cuts for people making 75,000 and under. He is going to make the rich more accountable. By comparison, the middle class pay more in taxes than the rich. He is going to even that out.

Restore Fiscal Discipline to Washington

* Reinstate PAYGO Rules: Obama believes that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for by cuts to other programs or new revenue.
* Reverse Bush Tax Cuts for the Wealthy: Obama will protect tax cuts for poor and middle class families, but he will reverse most of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest taxpayers.
* Cut Pork Barrel Spending: Obama introduced and passed bipartisan legislation that would require more disclosure and transparency for special-interest earmarks. Obama believes that spending that cannot withstand public scrutiny cannot be justified. Obama will slash earmarks to no greater than year 2001 levels and ensure all spending decisions are open to the public.
* Make Government Spending More Accountable and Efficient: Obama will ensure that federal contracts over $25,000 are competitively bid. Obama will also increase the efficiency of government programs through better use of technology, stronger management that demands accountability and by leveraging the government's high-volume purchasing power to get lower prices.
* End Wasteful Government Spending: Obama will stop funding wasteful, obsolete federal government programs that make no financial sense. Obama has called for an end to subsidies for oil and gas companies that are enjoying record profits, as well as the elimination of subsidies to the private student loan industry which has repeatedly used unethical business practices. Obama will also tackle wasteful spending in the Medicare program.

Make the Tax System More Fair and Efficient

* End Tax Haven Abuse: Building on his bipartisan work in the Senate, Obama will give the Treasury Department the tools it needs to stop the abuse of tax shelters and offshore tax havens and help close the $350 billion tax gap between taxes owed and taxes paid.
* Close Special Interest Corporate Loopholes: Obama will level the playing field for all businesses by eliminating special-interest loopholes and deductions, such as those for the oil and gas industry.
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Happiness to me, is being with the people that love you. Everything else, doesn't seem to matter.

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#16675 - 02/16/08 09:52 AM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHA [Re: lisi]
Junglist
Frosted Flakes
*

Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 643
Loc: Illadel, PA

Offline
Taxes... http://truthattack.org/thereisnolaw.html

go read that. have a nice day.

THE INCOME TAX IS ILLEGAL. Obama is supporting an Unconstitutional/Illegal law. Tax cuts? TAXES ARE ONLY TO BE TAKEN FROM CORPORATIONS PROFITS, NOT FROM YOUR FRUITS OF YOUR LABOR.

What tax cuts for people who make 75k and under? There weren't any, or do you not have C-Span? LOL. Bush vetoed them. Better check the facts.

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#16677 - 02/16/08 10:41 AM Re: Obama Supporter Challenge: Ron Paul Fan... CHA [Re: Junglist]
lisi
Mrs. Se7enet


Registered: 02/20/03
Posts: 575
Loc: Allen, TX

Offline
OK Ralph. Whatever you say must be right. You win. You are like talking to a damned brick wall. There's no point talking to you because you think your opinion is the only one that's right and everyone else is wrong and a dumbass for thinking differently than you. So you go on living in your fantasy world, and I will stay where I'm at in reality. Have a nice day.
_________________________
Happiness to me, is being with the people that love you. Everything else, doesn't seem to matter.

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