#16651 - 02/15/08 08:47 AM
Re: A Brief comparison of Candidates Ron Paul/Obama
[Re: Junglist]
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lisi
Mrs. Se7enet
Registered: 02/20/03
Posts: 575
Loc: Allen, TX
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Are you trying to convince us all to vote for Ron Paul? The dude has 14 delegates! To me, there must be something wrong with his message if he only has 14 delegates. Don't you think if he was as good as you say he is, he would have support from the American people?
_________________________
Happiness to me, is being with the people that love you. Everything else, doesn't seem to matter.
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#16656 - 02/15/08 05:32 PM
Re: A Brief comparison of Candidates Ron Paul/Obam
[Re: lisi]
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Junglist
Frosted Flakes
Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 643
Loc: Illadel, PA
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You are confusing support for polling percentages... do a youtube search for "hacking democracy"
get some kleenex... your precious voting is fucked.
p.s. Jamin's blog says Obama won New Hampshire... technically, he didn't.. I mean, don't get me wrong.. HE WON... but on paper he lost, because the numbers were hacked in Hillary's favor... yea, it happened. Heard about Florida 2000? What about Ohio 2004?
Voting machines are a joke. and you obviously know jack shit about Delegates...let me explain how they work:
There are 2 kinds(3 for dems, and the 3rd kind are gonna fuck Obama royally, but lets talk about the first 2 first, shall we?)...
Declared Delegates... they go to the caucuses and they are ON THE BALLOTS... they are people who promise to vote for a certain candidate, no matter what the outcome at the state convention... yea, your VOTE is a suggestion--nothing more. If you don't stick around AFTER THE VOTING TAKES PLACE AT YOUR CAUCUS, VOTE **A SECOND TIME**(nobody normally does this, so Ron Paul people know this and will stick around and scoop them up)
Undeclared delegates... don't have to vote for any ONE candidate... unbound... still elected the same way... Ok, so you go and "vote" which is a fancy word for POLLING.. a STRAW POLL OF INTEREST--not who will win...All of the DELEGATES you are hearing about have been estimates to this point, even NOW, they are ESTIMATES.
The primary/caucus ends... Primary is YOUR vote.. Caucus is the delegates all getting together at the STATE DNC/RNC convention. Remember those people you didn't stick around to elect... you voted for the good speaker and most likely DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO THESE DELEGATES ARE. All you would see is WHO THEY DECLARED FOR, and some of them WON'T BE DECLARED.
This is where we win BIG. The delegate process is like fucking metaphysics to most people. You think your vote counts, but you have merely SUGGESTED who you think... In Texas, it won't matter... the majority of Hispanic Americans aren't voting for Obama if you believe the exit polling(I personally don't, but still--so far it's all "correct")
Delegates can DECLARE to vote for McCain and switch... we knew that if we told people we were voting for Ron Paul, they'd lose our paperwork(and they have in a lot of cases), so we LIED and said we were for Romney, Huckabee, McCain... etc.. and mostly undeclared...
So when we go to the RNC... this is where the party picks the platform for Texas... so say McCain wins... if he wins by 51%, all of the delegates MUST vote for McCain, and he wins Texas. THIS NEVER HAPPENS ON THE FIRST VOTE. Once the first vote takes place, all of those delegates are unbound and can vote for whomever they want on the second ballot. Second ballot comes around--and, well let us call it the "sleeper cell" attacks. 70% of Texas delegates will be Ron Paul supporters...like 50% or more in almost every state, because we are sneaky and sometimes you have to resort to trickery when the media refuses to cover you. That is where you are wrong.. he HAS SUPPORT FROM PEOPLE.. NOT THE MEDIA.
Tell me you haven't seen more of his signs, stickers, people waving signs, etc than anyone else... you'd be lying.
So when nobody wins 51% on ANY STATE BALLOT, our delegates... bound and UNBOUND will vote for whom they want. This means he could win ZERO STATES and still be the nominee. OR, Obama's college kid supporters will not stick around/wake up from their hangovers, etc... and miss the Nominating committee.
Once the states cast their votes... they set the PARTY PLATFORM... this is where it TRULY gets fun. In Alaska, for instance:
In Alaska, EVERY SINGLE DELEGATE was a Ron Paul supporter. They couldn't get past the Super Majority of the State, so instead, they said the Republican Party of Alaska would "not support a war without first being attacked." would "not enforce the drug laws of the state or federal government"
"never raise taxes. period" etc... so they sent McCain's delegates to Minneapolis with STRICT INSTRUCTIONS on what is required... if McCain doesn't agree to EVERY PLANK, then those delegates become UNBOUND at the National committee...
Multiply this by 50 states.
Get where I'm going with this? We take over the Republican party and send whoever wins the election to Washington with strict instructions as to what the party IS AND ISN'T going to stand for... he does ANYTHING against that, we support impeachment. See now?
So send McCain to washington, bound, gagged, crying, supporting legal marijuana, no income tax, ONLY passing laws authorized by the constitution, etc...
GAME OVER. You don't need to get your guy in if you send the other guy with strict instructions and a promise of a pink slip if he gets out of line. BUT, if he doesn't get 51% on the first ballot at the RNC... well, HAIL TO THE CHIEF RON PAUL. And that is why Huckabee is staying in the race... Romney dropped out, because he knew with him in there, the chance was greater for a brokered convention like this, and they know that RP has the delegates. It's harder to split them if Romney sends his delegates to McCain, etc... Romney would like to run for office again someday... RP wins without Republican support in his District all the time, so they will NEVER take him out of congress.
Super delegates... lol, Obama is fucked... google that shit, because I don't wanna spoil the surprise.. lets just say, smoke filled room is how you will get your candidate.. noone is better at smoke filled back room than the Clintons.
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#16657 - 02/15/08 05:34 PM
Re: A Brief comparison of Candidates Ron Paul/Obam
[Re: Junglist]
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Junglist
Frosted Flakes
Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 643
Loc: Illadel, PA
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p.s. RON PAUL HAS 42 DELEGATES.. CHECK HIS WEBSITE, NOT THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA.
He also raised 6 mill in a single day... 4 mill online in another day, with 1 mill offline the same day...
Obama takes 2-3 days NOW that he's the Front runner. And all the states coming up are full of Hispanic people who tend to not vote for blacks... sad but true. I wish it wasn't that way, because FUCK HILLARY... but fuck Obama... his change is a different suit, a penis.. and.. the same voting records.
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#16658 - 02/15/08 06:48 PM
Re: A Brief comparison of Candidates Ron Paul/Obam
[Re: Junglist]
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Jamin
Cookie Crisp
Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 2649
Loc: Texas
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ZOMGWTFBBQ and the Illuminati and the Jewish Kabal are secretly paying off the delegates to vote for Hitler!!!11!eleventy
Are you for real? "Sleeper cells" ?!?! Like, do you even listen to yourself when you say this crap? Do you keep a straight face?
Look, Ralph, it's really quite simple. All the Obama vs Paul, Paul vs Obama, Clinton vs pretty much everyone discussion accomplishes nothing. In the end, no matter how it must hurt you to hear this, there is absolutely nothing - not one single thing - you can say that will make me vote for Ron Paul. Well, I suppose if you said he was going to make all beer free for the rest of eternity, I may start considering it. But short of that, you can type and type and type till you're blue in the face about how Ron Paul is the second coming of Jesus, and how your "sleeper cells" are somehow going to end up giving him the nomination in the face of all other reason and logic to the contrary. But it's not going to change my mind.
Because personally, I don't think a literalist has any business being installed as a head of state. You can extoll the virtues of "going back to the constitution" and what-have-you, but I'd much rather have someone who is able to interpret the feeling of the document, rather than get caught up in semantics. There's a lot of things in the world now that the framers had no idea about, and I don't think a literal interpretation of a document written 230 years ago is wise.
---Jamin
_________________________
Diablo 3 Lead Designer Jay Wilson:
“The development of a Blizzard game is sometimes a long affair. This is how long it took us to be ready.”
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#16665 - 02/16/08 08:53 AM
Re: A Brief comparison of Candidates Ron Paul/Obam
[Re: Jamin]
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Junglist
Frosted Flakes
Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 643
Loc: Illadel, PA
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You can't defend it. The constitution prevents harming another person without due process of law. HOWEVER, if you look at the 9th and 10th Amendments, they CLEARLY state that if you don't see it in the first 8 Amendments, then it is a STATE ISSUE.
Let me kick that back up for those who haven't ever READ the Constitution before(might be you, voting for Obama causes me to wonder ;))
10th Amendment to the US Constitution: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
So what that means, Dear Jamin, is that if Texas wants to legalize child porn, they could, and NY wouldn't have any right to argue... except for...
4th Amendment to the US Constitution: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Key words there being SECURE IN THEIR PERSONS... but I'm sure you knew this... and you were just testing to see if I know the Constitution or my rights. That's right, you cannot use or initiate force against another, which is the Libertarian philosophy. That is, incedentally, why I don't pay the Income tax--it's also unconstitutional. And you know, the damndest thing happened when the IRS came to have a conversation with me about it.
"Show me the law that says I am required to pay the income tax. Show me where the part of the Constitution that says the IRS is legal."
"We will see you in court"
That was 4 years ago....
Still waiting. I filed a Freedom Of Information Act request to see any cases pending against me for Tax Evasion... I'll be damned, there's not one. Yes. If you demonstrate you KNOW there isn't a law, you don't have to pay. Imagine have 30% more of your wealth every year... Imagine someone fucking running for President that would end that. Obama is going to raise your taxes, STEALING, and redistribute it to the poor. JAMIN, THAT'S FUCKING SOCIALISM! WAKE UP!
I bet you think the Bill of Rights is actually a BILL OF RIGHTS, and not a set of guidelines for the Government to follow... Obama thinks that too! If it's a bill of rights, why does it not say "you have this right, you have that right" etc?
1. Congress shall make no law
2. shall not be infringed
3. No Soldier shall, in time
4. shall not be violated
See... so far, the Constitution has conferred no rights upon the people because, and Obama is know for saying this... WE ARE ENDOWED BY OUR CREATOR WITH CERTAIN INALIENABLE RIGHTS... yes, born with them.
The solution is to follow the fucking Constitution, AS WRITTEN, or else. It's the law of the land, and if you don't like it... it's called ALTER OR ABOLISH. You don't just ignore it, because when we let one fucking idiot ignore it, we get Bush, Cheney, et al
Go on though, this is fun... ask me another one.
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#16666 - 02/16/08 08:55 AM
Re: A Brief comparison of Candidates Ron Paul/Obam
[Re: Junglist]
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Junglist
Frosted Flakes
Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 643
Loc: Illadel, PA
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Today we held our local district conventions and selected our delegates to the State convention in Alaska. We turned out the Paulites! Not only did we get a clear majority of delegates to the state (we were very organized and completely stealthy in this - it was like a surprise attack by Ron Paul), but listen to this...
While we were there we voted on platform changes for the state GOP. You will not believe some of the stuff that passed!
The most controversial one was the one that I proposed. There was a section in the platform that said the Republican Party of Alaska opposes any sort of gaming (gambling) in the state on the basis that it is harmful to families and communities. I proposed striking that out entirely, from the standpoint of personal and economic liberty, and after huge debate and three recounts my movement PASSED by ONE VOTE! So now that its passed the local level, it'll go on to state!
Guess what else?
Another Ron Paul supporter proposed striking out and replacing a section that said something to the effect of: "The Republican Party of Alaska supports the aggressive world wide war on terror and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan." The replacement that PASSED read something like: "We will not support military intervention in a foreign country unless a constitutional, congressional declaration of war is made." How HUGE is that?
And perhaps the craziest win of the day, in my opinion, was when we passed a movement to change the party platform to read that we, as Republicans, support the legalization of industrial hemp. LOL!
Lots of other awesome platform changes passed, having to do with state's rights, educational choice, and immigration. Everything was in line with the Ron Paul platform, and pretty Libertarian sounding!
The other conventions that took place elsewhere today and earlier in the week have also reported high numbers of Ron Paul delegates to the state convention, and similar interesting successes at their local level. It really looks to me like we can go to the state convention and ENACT some extremely controversial party platform changes! It would be so great to see the neo-cons have to run independent for failing to endorse the Republican Party platform, and so great to see them squirm in terror when they realize that RON PAUL has TAKEN OVER THEIR PARTY!
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#16667 - 02/16/08 08:57 AM
Re: A Brief comparison of Candidates Ron Paul/Obam
[Re: Junglist]
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Junglist
Frosted Flakes
Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 643
Loc: Illadel, PA
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p.s. if Obama is for energy independence... why not legalize HEMP?
Not weed.. I mean industrial HEMP... you can make plastics, fuels, cleaning detergents, medicines, etc... WHY NO LEGALIZE HEMP?
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#16668 - 02/16/08 09:02 AM
Re: A Brief comparison of Candidates Ron Paul/Obam
[Re: Junglist]
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lisi
Mrs. Se7enet
Registered: 02/20/03
Posts: 575
Loc: Allen, TX
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Hey Ralph, if you've got this all fucking figured out, why don't you run for President when you come of age? You seem to think you know better than everyone out there.
_________________________
Happiness to me, is being with the people that love you. Everything else, doesn't seem to matter.
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#16669 - 02/16/08 09:29 AM
Re: A Brief comparison of Candidates Ron Paul/Obam
[Re: lisi]
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Junglist
Frosted Flakes
Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 643
Loc: Illadel, PA
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Some of us are doers, some of us are supporters of the doers. What are you? BTW Lisi... let's ask the Military if they think Obama will get them out of the war...
OH DAMN, WHAT HAVE WE HERE?
Q4 FEC Reports: Ron Paul Receives More Military Donations Than All Other Republicans Combined
Total military donations nearly as much as the total of all other remaining candidates - Republican and Democrat
ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA – According to newly released FEC reports, Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul has received more military donations than the other three remaining Republican candidates combined.
“The latest numbers make it clear: the troops support Ron Paul,” said Ron Paul campaign chairman Kent Snyder. “Dr. Paul has worked his entire career working for veterans, and has many awards and endorsements due to his dedication to their cause.”
A search of the FEC database by employer reveals that Dr. Paul has received 1160 donations from military donors, nearly triple that of John McCain, and more than McCain, Mitt Romney, and Mike Huckabee combined.
Dr. Paul’s total military donations of $249 thousand are almost as much as the $260 thousand of combined donations received by the other five remaining candidates.
Congressman Paul is no stranger to military support. Former president Ronald Reagan once said, “Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country!”
According to the FEC reports, these are the total number and amount of military donations for each of the presidential candidates*:
Ron Paul: 1160 $249k
John McCain: 438 $83k
Mike Huckabee: 126 $37k
Mitt Romney: 126 $24k
Barack Obama: 443 $76k
Hillary Clinton: 154 $41k
*Methodology: Searched FEC reports for occupation/employer contains: "Army" "Navy" "USN" "USAF" "Air Force" "Marine" "USMC" "Coast Guard" "USCG" then removed duplicates and non-military occupations (i.e. "marine repair")
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#16671 - 02/16/08 09:36 AM
Re: A Brief comparison of Candidates Ron Paul/Obam
[Re: Junglist]
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lisi
Mrs. Se7enet
Registered: 02/20/03
Posts: 575
Loc: Allen, TX
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Thanks for sharing that. I've already read that by the way, and it really doesn't matter because Ron Paul isn't going to receive the nomination. You can keep arguing all these points, but it doesn't change the fact that he lacks support, and delegates to lock in the nomination. Keep hoping and dreaming.
_________________________
Happiness to me, is being with the people that love you. Everything else, doesn't seem to matter.
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#16674 - 02/16/08 09:49 AM
Re: A Brief comparison of Candidates Ron Paul/Obam
[Re: lisi]
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Junglist
Frosted Flakes
Registered: 12/25/02
Posts: 643
Loc: Illadel, PA
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You keep saying delegates... WE ARE THE DELEGATES... who do you think delegates are... how do you think delegates get picked?
Did you vote on them? You become a delegate by filing the paperwork. You get an email from Obama to "please sign up to be a delegate!!! omgz0r"
I'm on his mailing list, too... and he hasn't been signing up delegates. You can't just win them, they have to actually vote for you, or didn't you know this? Obama has to win 51% of the states delegates in the FIRST VOTE, or they become unbound and can vote for Kucinich, if they so choose--even though he's out. Read this again...
sleepy Online
Originally Posted By: Xenophage
Today we held our local district conventions and selected our delegates to the State convention in Alaska. We turned out the Paulites! Not only did we get a clear majority of delegates to the state (we were very organized and completely stealthy in this - it was like a surprise attack by Ron Paul), but listen to this...
While we were there we voted on platform changes for the state GOP. You will not believe some of the stuff that passed!
The most controversial one was the one that I proposed. There was a section in the platform that said the Republican Party of Alaska opposes any sort of gaming (gambling) in the state on the basis that it is harmful to families and communities. I proposed striking that out entirely, from the standpoint of personal and economic liberty, and after huge debate and three recounts my movement PASSED by ONE VOTE! So now that its passed the local level, it'll go on to state!
Guess what else?
Another Ron Paul supporter proposed striking out and replacing a section that said something to the effect of: "The Republican Party of Alaska supports the aggressive world wide war on terror and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan." The replacement that PASSED read something like: "We will not support military intervention in a foreign country unless a constitutional, congressional declaration of war is made." How HUGE is that?
And perhaps the craziest win of the day, in my opinion, was when we passed a movement to change the party platform to read that we, as Republicans, support the legalization of industrial hemp. LOL!
Lots of other awesome platform changes passed, having to do with state's rights, educational choice, and immigration. Everything was in line with the Ron Paul platform, and pretty Libertarian sounding!
The other conventions that took place elsewhere today and earlier in the week have also reported high numbers of Ron Paul delegates to the state convention, and similar interesting successes at their local level. It really looks to me like we can go to the state convention and ENACT some extremely controversial party platform changes! It would be so great to see the neo-cons have to run independent for failing to endorse the Republican Party platform, and so great to see them squirm in terror when they realize that RON PAUL has TAKEN OVER THEIR PARTY!
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It's all about the people who filed the paperwork... the numbers you here on TV only count if all of those delegates choose to vote for Obama at the NATIONAL CONVENTION... all we have to do is have OUR PEOPLE elected as delegates. Considering the fact that you don't have to list your candidate when you run as a delegate--all we have to do is GET ON THE BALLOT AS A DELEGATE, and get our meetup groups to stick around after the initial vote is over.
IN MOST STATES THAT HAVE VOTED SO FAR, WE HAVE THE MAJORITY OF DELEGATES... IN WEST VIRIGINIA, WE GOT 6/8 delegates... 6 OF 8. For example... in California, we have the majority. In New York, we have the majority... in every caucus state, we have the majority.
So if we can keep Huckabee in the race, we go to the convention and make it past the first ballot. Every delegate from the states votes for the person their state voted for... MCCAIN doesn't get 51%.
Then what?
Then those delegates can vote for whomever they want. And they are all Ron Paul supporters. The only way to stop this is to IMMEDIATELY motion to suspend the rules and do whatever. BUT, we can do this too. And not only that, if the MAJORITY OF DELEGATES FROM 5 STATES motions for a vote of NO CONFIDENCE in John McCain, he is REMOVED FROM THE RACE.
Better go read your party Rules... you think Hillary doesn't know this shit? Obama is going to lose to Hitlery because a bunch of dumbass college kids will be to hungover to show up/stick around for the delegation process.
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